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Former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia Tim Fischer on Christopher Lane's murder: "There is deep seated anger this time"
On the heels of a horrific shooting in Oklahoma which left a promising young baseball player dead and his home country of Australia in mourning, on Tuesday evening "Piers Morgan Live" invited a collection of guests tasked with making sense of an incident that has once again put America's gun culture in the spotlight.
According to police, 23-year-old Christopher Lane was jogging along the road when three teenagers shot him in the back, allegedly out of boredom. Speaking with Piers Morgan from Melbourne, Ahron Young conveyed the emotional impact that the Oklahoma murder is having 9,000 miles away:
"We've all heard about gun violence in America, but this has really brought it home to us here. Right across the country parents in Australia who may have children on scholarships in the U.S. and also the students themselves, just out of disbelief that this could happen to one of ours," said the Sky News Melbourne Bureau Chief, of Lane, who was attending East Central University on a baseball scholarship. "People from the local baseball club have all been down there [Essen] this week. It's been terribly sad, they've been placing a baseball with tributes written on it, flowers on the home base there. His mother and father, they held back tears. They described Chris as just another normal kid. He loved his baseball he's loved the game since he was 15 years old and he loved it because he wanted to go to college in the U.S."
Nearly two decades ago, Tim Fischer championed Australia's gun control reforms, an effort that has virtually eliminated firearm crimes in the country. Joining "Piers Morgan Live" on Tuesday, the former Deputy Prime Minister held little back when voicing his disgust for the alternate approach being followed in America:
"Just for the record, Australia has had zero gun massacres since 1996, and in the United States, 80 people are killed by guns every single day," he noted. "So, it is another example of murder and mayhem on Main Street. Yes, people are thinking of going to the USA on business, vacation, trips, should think carefully about it given the statistical facts you are 15 times more likely to be shot dead in the USA than in Australia per capita per million people."
With ire dripping on every word, Fischer appealed to American authorities to follow in the footsteps his nation imprinted in the late 1990s:
"We don't have gun shows where you can walk up and not even be subject to a background check in one of the most dumbest decisions so far in the litany of agony over the gun laws and gun policies of the NRA and the USA. There is deep seated anger this time and I can tell you there is disbelief," said Fischer. "I just want to say that it would appeal to the deep thinkers in the USA to think again about the drift in the state of the nation."
Watch the clip for more of Morgan's interviews with Young and Fischer, and for the next edition of "Piers Morgan Live," watch CNN every night at 9.
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James ganddfin tony soprano as mob boss 86 episodes bijjing band knife sales after two killing sprees 2 men killed metro vancouver knife attacked. Wake up it not the tools its the people we could band them i guess. Lol
If you could write an English sentence, you might make a logical argument. But since you cannot seem to do that, please be quiet until you can take some lessons.
Colin, you apparently were able to understand what he said, so why are you criticizing his comments? Get a life, d-bag.
You make a great case against home schooling. Why not take a nap and leave the discussion boards to the adults?
I have a 29 year old niece who was home-schooled since the 2nd grade. Today she has a PhD in astrophysics, and is an assistant professor at the University of ***************. She hopes to be granted tenure in a few more years.
While she is undoubtedly an exceptional example (in my opinion!), everyone who is home-schooled is NOT a dummy!
Dear traveler, you obviously know nothing about home schooling. I think you might be ignorant, stupid, or both. Best you pull over, and sign up for more school. Preferably home schooling, since you apparently learned nothing the first time around.
Did you make it all the way through third grade, Max, or did you have to drop out mid-year?
I am a Duncan ok native and my children attend school with these thugs. These boys are not the norm in our community but I am not shocked to learn that these boys are responsible.My son also a sophmore has always been terrified of AKA"Bug" James Edwards. There have been gun threats made at school for tomorrow and the teachers web page is stating if parents hold their children out of school it will be an excused.Our small community has been rocked by this sickening tragedy. Our hearts go out to Sarah Harper and Chris's family and friends.
If these three thugs were known troublemakers with guns, why wasn't something done about them? why didn't the police question them about gun possession and violence? The community is not at fault and I sympathize....but we all have to take responsibility when something like this happens and try and prevent it from happening again...the advice "if you see something say something" applies to more than just terrorists.
The problem is that WE as a society always want to make an excuse, they are too young, they are misguided, etc. It may apply to some but in this case if these kids are KNOWN to be troublemakers then they need pay the piper. There should be no leniency because they are teenagers and the parents need to be looked into because most likely they had to get this behavior from somewhere or someone just didn't teach them that life has value. Simple and Plain. I am black and lived in the "hood" but one thing my kids respect is life and not to hurt people unless they are being harmed.
Good comment
Unfortunately Danny,it isn't only the excuses made. And, I'm pretty sure you are aware of that. I do totally respect you guiding your children to a life of respect and abiding by the law, don't misunderstand that for a moment. The problem is, there are too many black fathers that don't make that effort. In failing to do so, they leave their children to grow up with gangsters and drug dealers as role models, and this exact situation is what happens when they do.
This problem is much deeper than society as a whole Danny, the problem is deeply rooted in current black society and black culture. It's in the actions of the 76% of black fathers that fail to make a home with their children, and teach them right from wrong as you are. It's in the music produced by blacks for blacks, that glamourizes the gangster lifestyle in question. It's in the hood every day. Until black society gets fed up with the current black culture, starts demanding respect be taught the children, and takes a stand against those that refuse to respect the law, and others, in the hood, this problem is going to continue, and unfortunately respectable Black Americans, such as yourself, that are trying to do right by your children, are going to be caught up in the mess that others in your society are creating. You already are in fact.
White people have been very tolerant of black on white crime, the liberal media has been playing it down, and playing it down, and playing it down, to the point that they simply don't report on it. But Barack Obama, and Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton, and the Media all ran around for MONTHS pointing fingers at White People, when a Hispanic defended himself against the attack of a black teenager. Then crap like this goes down every day and white folks are getting REAL FED UP with this sort of thing Danny. White folks are fixing to start demanding accountability, if the black community is lucky. If they're not, there's going to be a war unlike anything you want to see. And, while there are a few brothers that are dumb enough to believe they're going to win such a war, the odds aren't in the black community's favor.
This country is getting more barbaric by the day.
They need to execute these three pieces of excrement, and they need to punish the parents and school authorities, as well. There are adults out there who enabled this.
Its sad this happens everyday. Ask your pres why do we cross the street when we see 3 black youths ??? We does everyone lock their car doors when we see 3 black youths ??? no this isn't racism its self preservation Mr Pres !!!!
I think its answered why we cross and lock. We are trying to stay alive
Would you cross the street if you saw Dimaggio the guys who burned that girls family alive?or what about the two white guys who walked into elementary schools with assault riffles to kill innocent children?
3 blacks? please, please take a look or read about the 3 suspects... 1 black, 1 bi-racial and 1 caucasian. Therefore it is not just "3 blacks". The 1 caucasian is the youth who confessed to the police that THEY decided they were bored and that THEY will kill someone. Funny how it was a group effort and only 2 are being charged with first degree murder. Lane deserves complete justice... one for all, all for one!! Punish them all... do not lessen the charge for a confession. It is more than obvious that all 3 youths were involved in the horrific crime.
@ b I did read there were 3 black kids and one white-Hispanic, point being the largest majority of crimes are from black youth. Why don't Obam, Sharpton, Jessie march in those neighborhoods and help these people better themselves??
its clear they don't want to help, they just want media time which leads to donations. If they spent time there showing, teaching & educating young men it could only help society, whether black or white, the point being Americas youth is off the chain due to everyone trying to be P. correct !! The best place to start would be teaching how to respect women.
I live in Texas and have a concealed-carry permit for a good reason. Our primary threat is from hordes of fearful, bigoted red-necks driving around with Confederate flags and hate bumper stickers. As a white man in an affluent neighborhood I face few risks from the crime associated with poverty. However, the conspiracy-fueled, hate-inspired, ignorance-based racists in our community are anxious to "stand their ground" – as dreamed about in some right-wing fantasy. I pretty certain you understand how they feel...
Its feral low lifes from a debased sub culture not actual Americans. I am so very sorry.
I have been watching Piers Morgan for the last two years attempt to have a reasoned debate with his guests about the need for gun law restrictions in the U.S. Its time to recognize the sad truth that America has become a gun crazed society. There is a pervasive fascination with guns that has something like a religious fervor to it. If you're not extolling the "virtue" of owning guns while citing the second amendment as an almost godlike authority, then you're living your life scared of being a victim of the next random violent act with a gun by a fellow citizen who happens to have some chip on his shoulder. The point is that America's fascination with "the right to bear arms" no matter what the cost both to innocent life and liberty to live safely in one's community is now in its essence a pervasive social disease. All the intellectual arguments in the world do not address the fact that this is a fundamentally emotional not a rational debate. That is why the debate never goes anywhere– a stalemate that continues for the benefit of the gun lobby and will continue to do so for as long as so many Americans keep guns central to who they are or are just too afraid not to own one because they fear for their own safety. There is at the core of the problem the belief that there are no good collective solutions to problems and it is up to each individual to look after his/her own needs on his/her own. Put another way, it is as if America has given up on itself when it comes to the question of how to protect its citizens from indiscriminate use of guns on America's own streets.
There is a satanic smile that tends to agree with your logic AND its futility. Because, unfortunately, statements like these alone will not change the outcome. It will take something much stronger to fix this. And the general public don't believe it exists.
It isn't gun ownership that is the problem. There is no correlation with the percentage of households with guns and gun violence. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/gun-deaths/
There is a significantly higher number of gun deaths per capita for blacks than for whites. This is a cultural problem, but it isn't an American culture problem it is a poverty and yes racial cultural problem. There is something wrong in the black and poverty communities that kids are not being taught to value life. Guns are inanimate objects, they only carry out the actions of those wielding them. There are countries with much higher rates of gun ownership than the US but with lower rates of gun violence. We need to address the violent cultures of America not gun ownership.
Not an American problem? So black Americans aren't American?
"It isn't gun ownership that is the problem. There is no correlation with the percentage of households with guns and gun violence. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/gun-deaths/"
I don't know what article you read for this fine piece of fictional data but it certainly was not the one you posted a link for. I did learn a few things in that article though. For instance the NRA says that the Sandy Hook massacre was just an elaborate suicide for the shooter. I guess those children and teachers were just "collateral damage"! Just an unavoidable speed bump in the race to greater freedom.
According to current gun laws, none of these three boys/minors could lawfully possess a firearm. It think the problem is that you can't make their actions any more illegal. Where do you go? Punish the parents? Mandate gun safes? The default stance for liberals is to take away gun rights for everyone else. Until they get off this position we will go nowhere.
Here in Texas any of those boys could take their money to a gun show, walk around and look at dozens of guns sold by individuals (not dealers), hand the guy the money and walk away with the gun. You can pretend this isn't true but you'd be in denial. I've bought and sold many guns in this manner. I an the only person I've seen who asked for an I.D. for proof of age. Guns are also commonly sold on gun forums by individuals – again with no background check and usually w/o any exchange of information. This is a giant loophole in the law and something any rational person would choose to stop.
Thank you for so eloquently stating exactly how I feel.
The reality is that it was totally and completely illegal under current US law for these boys, all of whom were under the age of 18, to possess firearms.
US law states the following:
Dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering firearms other than shotguns or rifles (e.g., handguns) or ammunition for those firearms to any person the dealer knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 21.
Unlicensed persons may not sell, deliver or otherwise transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition to any person the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is under the age of 18.
Exceptions are provided for temporary transfers made for specified activities, including employment, ranching, farming, target practice and hunting.
The fact is that these idiots were not using their firearms for the purposes of employment (e.g. they were not police or security officers), they were not ranching or farming (which may require a firearm for the humane euthanasia of injured livestock), they were not members of an approved target shooting club or team, and they were not hunting (which they cannot do alone in OK at their age).
The simple reality is that a number of US laws were broken when these idiots came into the possession of firearms and ammunition.
The absolutely key issues are: WHY WAS THE LAW NOT ENFORCED TO THE MAXIMUM? and WHAT TOTAL IDIOT GAVE THESE LOONS ILLEGAL ACCESS TO FIREARMS IN THE FIRST PLACE? THERE WERE CLEAR SIGNS THAT THESE UNDERAGE PEOPLE HAD ILLEGAL ACCESS TO FIREARMS BEFORE THIS SHOOTING HAPPENED. WHY DID'NT THE POLICE INVESTIGATE THIS AND REMOVE THE FIREARMS?
Did you take a good look at the parents of these three murderers? People like that should not be allowed to have children...they should be sterilized at puberty....
Well said!
You make valid observations. It is, however, very probable these thugs stole the gun. Sadly, in our great country, there are WAY TOO MANY THUGS. We the People need to start aggressively reducing the pool of thugs with either more jail time and/or more capital punishment.
Thank you. Three brutal teens with a gun it was already illegal for them to have, and CNN and Piers Morgan want to use this crime to push a gun control agenda that isn't even relevant here. Why not just have Morgan strip naked and shower in the blood of the victim and have done? It would be faster and less hypocritical.
Here in it's dirt-common for teenagers to "own" their own rifles. It's not uncommon for them to hunt without supervision.
I'm aware that laws exist to provide some measure of gun safety. We're all aware that those laws do not control the distribution of weapons. If you can't control the distribution all that is left is the inventory and capability of weapons. The longer the N.R.A. nuts avoid the real truth the closer we'll be to the anti-gun crowd supporting extreme laws. This is a good era for reasonable laws and sensible compromise – not moronic sound-bites from the extremists on either side.
Hi Larry
Yes, I know it is common for teenagers in the US to hunt under supervision (just as it is here in NZ). The key word is supervision. I don't necessarily want to see teenage hunting stopped. I agree with you that there needs to be some better laws and better compromises made e.g. why not make gun safes mandatory as they are in Australia and NZ? Why not make it mandatory to age check people who are purchasing ammunition?
FOUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Regardless of one's stance on firearms)
"We've all heard about gun violence in America, but this has really brought it home to us here."
If that isn't the most disingenuous load of CATTLE SCAT I've heard in recent years from an Australian politician... I don't know what is.
Unless I am mistaken, Australia’s history and "culture" of the gun has walked hand in hand with the U.S., up until the Port Aurthur massacre.
Taking an incident, forgetting the reasons, and focusing only on the firearm aspect, is not going to do a thing to stop it; nor is it going to minimize it. Hell, even after the Port Author incident and the resulting legislation and “buy back”, THE HOMICIDE RATE IN AUSTRALIA WAS LEFT UNAFFECTED. And there is still firearm ownership in Australia.
This was like a few years ago when John Howard started in on firearms in the US, back in 2007 – Nothing more than trying to score points through depending on those who are ignorant of the facts.
"unless i'm mistaken"
You are mistaken. I'm calling BS on your whole comment. What a load of rubbish.
Agree and gun use in homicides has come down also: http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/weaponUseTrend.html
Actually the homicide rate in Australia has been in steady decline from 1969 to the present. Australians just murder people less than Americans. Ours is the real land of the free. If you are going to spout statistics about our country, make sure you have the facts by viewing this website first: http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/factsFigures.html
The homicide rate in America has trended downward for decades also, despite increase gun sales. Throws cold water on the theory that more guns=more violence.
Good comment here from a fellow British Commonwealth member in Canada. Canada also has a strict gun law/
We are not allowed to carry weapons. Hunting guns allowed with registration. No need for joe citizen to carry a gun here but the States is so gun crazy. I will never understand its love for guns.
'Those who are ignorant of facts' How ironic!
Facts are that gun related deaths from 500 per year to less than 100, so its just NRA crap. Facts are No Australian schools have metal detectors, or the need for armed security guards, the Murder rate is less than a quarter that of US.
There are bored and crazy people is both countries, the only difference is the ACCESS to guns. Australian crazy kids play video games and smoke pot, American crazy kids play with guns and smoke crack...one of these combinations has infinitely worse consequences.
If you want to get out of the hole your living in, maybe you can see for yourself, just don't bring your gun, we don't have the stupidest thing ever written on a piece of paper, i.e. the 2nd Amendment.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-23/katter-wrong-on-gun-deaths/4904576
Spot on using this create-up, I honestly feel This web site needs a great deal more awareness. I’ll possibly be again all over again to find out much more, thanks for the data!
It is awesome how big money in the gun industry have manipulated the US into believing more guns is better, when reality proves otherwise. But this is just a phase. When the US finally requires guns to be insured, the insurance industry will shut this down. For the time being, when 22 school children are shot at school, there is a class-action law suit that falls on the taxpayers to pay. NO PROBLEM with the 2nd amendment. But if you have guns, I think you should be required to insure them, so I don't have to pay when your son shoots up the next school. Then you will think twice (and the insurance companies will make you pay dearly) to maintain your obsession.
How does reality prove otherwise? Check the homicide and crime rate trends in America. They've been trending downward for decades.
Your idea is merely a fig leaf for gun confiscation. If insurance companies would charge an arm and a leg to insure a firearm then only the rich would be allowed to have guns. Plus, it's possible that insurance companies would refuse to provide coverage for firearms or bullets. Then what would happen?
You do realize if this man had a gun it would be likely that there would be at least one dead thug, if not more? But instead we have 3 punks alive who will contribute no value to society for their entire lives.
How dare you even say that Chris would've shot one of them. You disgust me. That comment just shows how bloody f'd up your head is about guns. My opinion is that most Aussies wouldn't shoot someone even if they're in a situation such as this. That is why we agree about no guns. F You for even thinking that is ok to say. Just because you would doesn't mean everyone would- especially someone who has been raised without even seeing a gun in their life
You do know they shot him in the back, don't you? And do you really think that once shot, he'd be concerned with drawing his gun, aiming and firing at a car that wa speeding away from him? Really?? You watch too much TV.
"You do realize if this man had a gun it would be likely that there would be at least one dead thug, if not more"
Congratulations, you win "dumbest comment in the history of the internet" award.
They guy was shot in the back as he was jogging.
He never saw it coming.
He could have a rocket launcher strapped to himself and the outcome would have been no different.
You are a complete and total idiot.
Well, if he had a rocket launcher strapped to his back, the thugs may have decided to pick on someone else.... but yeah, a CCW would not have saved this jogger. Random acts of violence can't be stopped at the act, it has to be stopped before it ever gets to that point. And that's not an argument for gun control.
My understanding is the Australian gentleman was shot in the back. If that's true, his having a gun wouldn't have helped him. What so many people fail to understand is that often, people die at the hands of someone with a gun because they are not in a situation where they have time to prepare to shoot.
The fault here is the same as in SandyHook. One of these "juveniles" was in a possession of a firearm which by law is prohibited for them to have. Therefore, they acquired this firearm by some means. So Pierce, instead of going on your usual rant about we should have guns in this country. How about we look at sensible gun laws. For example, that you turn over your guns to the authorities or responsible gun own if you have a person in your house that is a known threat to society. This WAS the case in Sandyhook and I would imagine that IS the case here too. The MOTHER in Sandyhook PURCHASED those firearms for her son and had them in HER house with that "man". The case may be true here where a "PARENT" purchased the .22 for their "child" as a means of connecting with the poor misunderstood choir boy who was only trying to be a WANNA-BE GANGSTER and have a RECORD of run ins with the law. Instead, of blaming the "gun" culture here. How about we blame HORRIBLE parenting. The existing gun laws need to be enforced and perhaps one new gun law. Here it is, you have to REMOVE the guns from your property if you have a person in your home that is considered a threat to society and if you don't you are partially responsible for the crime.
I'm calling Al Sharpton and all of the celebs who want 'in' on the race angle for this story. We need to hype it up week after week ala Trayvon Martin. Hoodies 3 for $10. Waddya say?
What about the driver? He is white. Spewing hatred around on a broad basis gets kinda messy, doesn't it?
I'll bet the white driver listened to rap, wore big baseball caps, didn't wear a belt, had one or more tattoos, and fancied himself a gangsta. If so, there's a W-word just for him.
Death penalty for using a gun in a crime.
All of these imbiciles who keep saying that the gun was not obtained legally, so it's nothing to do with America's gun laws are absolutely kidding themselves.
These guns at some stage were legally purchased, then probably stolen or "stolen". Why allow them in the market in the first place? That's the issue.
Because people have the right to self defense. There's a story out today how a 70 year old shot an intruder just out of prison. I'm sure he'd be thrilled that you'd leave him defenseless.
I question your assumption that guns are purchased legally at some point. Many guns are smuggled into the country from Mexico and other countries. The black market in guns would only increase if we banned them. It's basic Economics 101.
Yes, at some point in the supply chain they were legally purchased.
However, it is still a fact that these children were in illegal possession of these firearms and in illegal possession of ammunition. The people who allowed this children to have access to the firearms and ammunition with out close supervision also need to be charged.
And where are Sharpton and Jesse Jackson? Silent. It was different in the Trayvon Martin issue when I white murdered a black. The black community is in a state of denial and goes violent when they are criticized. Can't keep it hidden.
It's now over 12 hours later and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson plus any other Black ahhhh leader (uncontrolled laughter) have come out and said a word. They run their mouths (like Oprah) about racism and blahh blahhhh. But now it is silent night.
you and every other person that tries to compare this to trayvon martin is an idiot. you are calling the black community hypocrites, at least get your facts straight first. since you are an idiot, i will break it down for you. when trayvon martin was killed because he was racially and criminally profiled, the killer was allowed to be free for months. he wasnt even questioned that night.
in the aussie's case. the 3 suspects were picked up and arrested within hours of the shooting. there is nothing that can be said about that.
i will give you a piece of something that will make you feel better about your point though. when crimes happen and a minor is a suspect. the media is not allow to give names or ages or pics. why do you supposed that these three suspects have all of thier info out for the world to see...?
Mat, I bet if you were confronted by these three animals you would rather have a gun than not, right? You're a hypocrite. I'm not saying that having a gun would have helped the victim since he was shot in the back. There are violent criminals out there and they could care less if you demand that guns be made illegal. Go ahead and disarm yourself and leave the rest of us alone. It's fine to make that decision for yourself and your family but the rest of us will do what we have to do. By the way, I do not own, nor have I ever shot a firearm but I still believe that guns are the great equalizer and that the right to own them should be defended. There is no "gun culture" in the US. We have a violence culture.
yep that is too funny. maybe people should let the whole non-racial trayvon martin attack on Zimmerman rest, it is getting too frigin stupid.
Myabe this potential victim should not have been allowed to own a gun? http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/20/20110801-escaped-prisoner-shot-dead-by-71-year-old-iowa-homeowner-after-hostage-ordeal?lite
There are two sides to the whole gun control/gun prohibition story. One is the number of violent crimes that lawful gun owners prevent, usually against themselves or their families. Think of the children.
You knucklehead, he used the own man's gun against him ! You're making my point!! the only reason he was able to hold these people hostage was the criminal broke in and took the man's gun.
The only reason the convict was killed was he was dumb enough to walk away from the shotgun for a minute.
The man's gun could have gotten his whole family dead.
Uh, John A, read the story again and then feel your face turn bright red. I'm sure the NRA could find another story for you that wouldn't discredit your point.
The old man used an illegal firearm (the perp's firearm) to defend himself and his wife. How does that disprove my point? The point is that, because of the gun, this person was able to defend himself.
Actually, my apologies, due to your previous comment I thought that I had misread the article. However, the article simply states that "But after four hours as a hostage Jerome Mauderly had had enough and retrieved his shotgun, police said." There's no mention of the perpetrator taking the homeowner's shotgun in order to commit the crime. So I stand corrected and vindicated, my point is valid. Due to legally owning a gun, the homeowner was able to defend himself.
We must abandon our current judicial system for the time being.... Crimes such as this, red handed, confessed, should be judged without trial, and sentence should be carried out immediately!!! DEATH to these three murderers! And all those who follow this path!!!
When the government no longer enforces laws that protect the citizens, it is the right of the people to establish a new government. See the Declaration of Independence
What are you, some kind of radical Muslim?
NO! I AM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN THAT IS TIRED OF THE ESCALATING VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY! YOU SIR, ARE JUST ONE OF THOUSANDS OF SHEEP, THAT WOULD RATHER SLEEP THROUGH THIS AND HOPE IT EVENTUALLY GOES AWAY! MAYBE 2016 WILL BRING THE CHANGES THIS COUTRY SO DESPERATLY NEEDS. AND AS FAR AS PIERS MORGAN GOES, HE NEEDS TO BE MUZZLED LIKE THE REST OF THE PRESS THAT GLORIGY BAD NEWS AND PUT HOPE AND GOODWILL ON THE BACK BURNER!
They have become so slick at turning everything to their own advantage. These creeps were underage. Their gun possession was ALREADY illegal. We have been lied to and treated as fools for so long. They won't even refer to this as what it was – a violent, racial attack.
How do you know it was a racial attack? I've seen no evidence of this. Are you assuming this because the victim was white and the shooter was black? You remind me of all the people who are convinced that Zimmerman went after Trayvon jbecause Trayvon was black. If the black boys wanted to shoot a white person, why didn't they just shoot the white boy who was driving the car?
MR. BRODY, I AM CONVINCED.... YOU ARE INDEED AND IDIOT....LIKE YOUR PREDIDENT!
MR. BRODY, I AM CONVINCED.... YOU ARE INDEED AND IDIOT....LIKE YOUR PRESIDENT!
Hey Obama. Is it still time for that discussion on race relations? Are you going to go on national TV and say that if you had a son he would look like those three cold blooded murderers? Where are you? Oh yea, it's not possible for the young man from Australia to be a victim of racism is it? He is one of the majority who have never been subject to racist behavior due to his race. I agree with the prime minister down there telling people not to come to the US. Our president and his cronies like Al, Jesse and those morons at MSMBC have helped create a racially divided country and fuel the fire of hate instead of really having an intelligent discussion about race. Poor little boys that murdered this guy are victims....that's why they did it. It's our fault not theirs. What a crock of crap.
What a shame–because close relations with Australia goes a long ways back. Too bad, we in our Country are gaining a very negative reputation as never before. Perhaps if we concentrated on the ills and problems in our own nation for awhile instead of suggesting to others what to do–we'd make some progress within our own shores, in short tend to our own business.
I mean this with all do respect.. I am so thankful to live in Australia. I don't know anyone who owns a gun nor do I know of anyone who knows anyone that owns a gun! I had a new American student in my class the other day and she was scared to come to school because we didn't have any metal detectors or gun security. This is crazy!!! I can't imagine living in a country where so many people own guns.
We constantly hear about all these gun debates after massacres occur but nothing ever happens!
I hope things can change America because we care about you. We are all on this earth together.
RIP Chris
Thank you Aussie.
Unfortunately there are too many people, particularly in the south where they aren't as intelligent, who have bought into the belief that guns save lives. I had a pastor from the south telling me the other day that he belived that we should all have the right to automatic/semi-automatic weapons with large bananna clips. Guns and Jesus.. So there is no hope here for reform.
Sigh... All I can say is that I wish you all the best Fred.
Thank you for your message.
Stereotype much? It's easy to sit back in predominantly white, liberal, well-educated, Northern state and pass judgment on Southerners. But, if you lived in the South and watched our news, you'd own one or more handguns, hire an alarm company, put your kids in private school, and live as far off in the suburbs as possible. Politicians and CNN love to make the debate about guns. But, really, we need to tackle far tougher cultural problems. It's been 50 years since MLK's "I Have A Dream Speech" and Jim Crow laws and 150 years since slavery. It's time to set high expectations for urban youth and eliminate "thug" culture completely.
I guess Fred is the brain trust, the all knowing. It's amazes me that its guns that kill and not the person pulling the trigger. So with this line of thinking I guess pencils cause misspellings. Background checks do little, the thugs will always have guns no matter what law you pass. Just like prohibition, there were more secret bars than before prohibition.
I bet you are glad to live in Australia where gun violence is so low. I just discovered that the population in Australia is 92% white and 7% asian. Maybe that could have something to do with the low crime rate.
Did you just pull that statistic out of your a**??
It's so funny when Americans argue... You make up statistics. Your education system also needs fixing. You need to learn way more about the world not just America.
I'm Australian. And i know the family members of Chris Lane.
The US is a great country, I've been there. But i tell you what, in Australia we're free, really free. And we can go for jogs at any time of day and night, basically ANYWHERE in the country, including inner city areas. We can do this, because we have a basic notion of "its cool, its not like anybodys gonna shoot me or something."
When is the last time most of you could say that??
This whole thing has rocked our country. The mere notion that by just BEING THERE, you can get a bullet in the back. To us, that's like going to Hell.
With so many guns in your country, your INSANE gun violence stats, (and i mean INSANE), we see schools being shot up too often to even count anymore. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference if a kid having a gun is illegal or not, it doesn't matter how many laws try to mitigate the damage...if someone crazy wants a gun to mass murder people, it's relatively easy to get a hold of one. Thats the reality. More guns = more dead Americans, and more dead American children.
Im not trying to insult you all, I just really want all of you to understand how things like this affect the perception of America to other western nations. Australia, the UK and inner Europe see whats going with you guys and just shake their head and say "seriously....what the hell? You're the leaders of the free world?".
Just to be clear, none of us care about whether you're conservative, liberal, white, black, citizen or alien. We just want the blood to stop flowing.
Yes!!! I am also sick if hearing all the talk about race! What the heck!?? You're all American citizens! The majority of you like to separate yourselves from each other all the time eg. Race, gender or the state you live in. That is probably why this debate goes around in circles.
I am just in complete shock that this can even happen! And to believe there are still stupid people out there that think guns are ok! Are you fricken kidding me!? Wake the F up!!
You can only experience true freedom when you live in peace and you the threat of guns doesn't even cross your mind. I wish this for all of you.
"Peace" is not peace as you know it. What you think of as peace is actually the absence of the potential for resistance, which is the whole point of gun confiscation.
John,
Wake up. If the government wants to take your stuff, there is no gun in the world that can stop them. Until you have choppers, tanks, RPGs at your disposal, a gun isn't going to save you from big brother. Christ.. what a bunch of freaks we have here.
I was generally referring to resistance to criminal violence, not government in particular. Funny how anyone who mentions resisting gun control/confiscation is labeled a freak.
Well John, there are a lot of people concerned that the government wants to target them specifically to take away their posessions.
Are you saying there's not?
Do you disagree?
Lastly, would you characterise these people as normal?
Aussie, what percentage of Australia's population is black? Isn't the black population less than 1%? Could this be a factor in such a low crime rate? Just asking.
Fred,
I'm sure there are quite a few people who are concerned about the encroachment of government power over their individual rights and property. For my part, I can understand the concern, especially over the last ten years. I'm not some Unabomber-type living in a bunker in Montana. I was born and raised in NYC and I still live here. I've never owned a gun nor even fired one, yet I can't support draconian gun control laws. It's truly disturbing how many of my fellow Americans truly believe that gun "control" (confiscation, if they're being honest) will make them safer from criminal violence. Criminals will always be able to get guns, period.
Mass shootings are sensationalized yet, anecdotally, the vast majority of gun homicides are one on one, not mass shootings. It's sad how the actions of one deranged individual leads to demands that hundreds of millions of innocent persons around the country, who did nothing wrong, be punished by reducing their freedom. So, no, I don't disagree with people who fear their own government. Of course, some people may not be normal. I'm not sure how to judge that but I consider myself normal.
My opinon is that the main contributing factor to violence in America is not a "gun culture" but is due to:
1) The rise of the welfare state leading to fatherless households.
2) Inflation since the sixties which leads to "latch-key kids" since both parents are forced to work.
3) Continued prosecution of the illogical, insane and disproven War On Drugs, which only serves to criminalize narcotics and create a culture of violence around it, just like Prohibition did with alcohol.
4) As an extension of #3, incarceration for minor drug offences. Prisons turn people into criminals, sometimes violent criminals. Why destroy a life just because the person was carrying a bit of heroin?
5) Gun control laws that allow criminals to be more certain that potential victims will not be able to resist. Chicago is an good example of all of the above.
If you get rid of the Blacks America would be as safe as Australia.
Yes.. Because we don't have anyone who is black here ... :/
Idiot.
If you got rid of the "Blacks" there would not be an [United States of] America.
Ok mate, I'll play along. You from Melbourne? OK.. Why don't you take a jog through Sunshine, Footscray and Dandenong at night, see how that works out. Try catching a Cranbourne train after dark into the outer suburbs. If you're in Sydney, take a jog through Punchbowl at night. You slip this Australia is heaven BS by my ignorant countrymates but I lived in Melbourne for a better part of 8 years, so your BS stops with me. Let me ask you something, was there an outcry when Indian students were being bashed, maimed and killed on a daily basis a few years back? Not really.. Instead of asking why Indian students were targeted for racial attacks, the aussies simply began foaming at the mouth saying that these bashings were "isolated" incidents and it was the Indian students who stood out from the crowd. The Australian government's solution to the problem was to limit the amount of students visas handed out to Indian students. I feel for the kid that was shot by these losers, but let's contain the Aussie outrage. When it comes to street violence, Australia lives in a glass house. I'm not even going to start with the state of affairs in the Aboriginal communities in the NT. While living in Collingwood I can tell you that seeing drunken brawls out on the streets was a daily event. Street muggings aren't even reported or properly investigated by local cops anymore. So let's save the outrage mate, clean up your own house first. Those that want to find out more on the Melbourne Indian student pogroms can just Youtube "Australia" + "Indian students".
Enforce the laws and the problems will be greatly reduced and that means "profiling" the minoirites whose 'anger' is directed at themselves and anyone who crosses their paths.
This is not gun violence this is people violence from a broken part of our Society where the culture of 'angry blackness' is destroying them and us...
x
Blacks commit crimes with illegal guns. So you want to disarm whites who got their legally so we can't protect ourselves from the black thugs who got theirs ILLEGALLY. Americans have to deal with this problem because we have violent black thugs in every city. Australia doesn't have this problem. BLACK THUGS are the problem because they get their guns illegally, not legal gun ownership. MAYBE WE'LL SHIP THEM TO AUSTRALIA SO THEY CAN FIND OUT WHAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. WHY DOESN'T THE MEDIA TALK ABOUT THE BLACK ON WHITE CRIME PROBLEM? WHY DID THEY SUPPRESS THE KNOXVILLE MASSACRE? SEGREGATION OR SEPARATION MIGHT SOLVE THE PROBLEM BUT YOU CAN'T HOLD WHITES ACCOUNTABLE FOR BLACK CRIME.
You´re just a cheesy racist that is pawning off the blame to people you SOLD the guns to .
Your type and the other monsters of the NRA and the far right bigots are the ones
that are REALLY responcible for this .
CHECK OUT THIS SITE: https://www.facebook.com/zimmerman.victory
Vick-
Please go back to school and get more educated.
1. Australia is very multicultural. We don't just have whites people here.
2.We hear enough in the media about your 'black on white' problem.... Please
3. Stop generalising
I swear an adult cannot be this idiotic – can they? Please tell me that you are just a silly 10 year old behind a laptop.
Aussie, Although I don't agree with everything he is saying, you are minimalizing the problem by focusing on his personality, the real problem in this country is accountability. The rules are different if you are white, the government, while trying to make things better for the black community has made it worse by always injecting race into every aspect of their lives. from buying a purse ( Ophra) to groceries (foodstamps) to schools ( desegregation). If I were black my head would be spinning just to find somewhere race isn't an issue. The reality is race is not the issue, morals are! Our culture is being destroyed by the inside for a very ominous reason, taking away our values, hopes and dreams. Take down the big guy and the rest will tumble... don't let them kid you, its not about the guns!!!
Simply to refute your point number 1, refer to the CIA World Factbook: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/as.html
Ethnic groups: white 92%, Asian 7%, aboriginal and other 1%
Far less ethnic diversity than the US.
John A
Your statistic is wrong. Also, do you believe all whites are Anglo-Saxon? If you do, please don't bother making another comment and go back to school.
JUSTICE ?
Hang them Immediately. They are Not Minors, treat them like adults, they did a crime they have to do time. Justice must be served immediately. No More Sympathy for these 3 rascals.
this is their fault Not parents, Not school.
everyone (Adult) is responsible for his/her own act.
"Hang them Immediately" – No, hanging them is not the way to carry out justice in 2013
"They are Not Minors" – Actually, they ARE minors (aged 15, 16 and 17). Just because you say they are not minors doesn't change the fact that they are minors.
"treat them like adults" – yes, i think they have been charged as adults
"everyone (Adult) is responsible for his/her own act" – okay, what about non-adults? these three teens are not adults.
And the fact remains that these children were in illegal possession of firearms and ammunition under current law. There are two problems here: (a) why on earth was the current laws not enforced? The police new these children had illegal firearms and ammunition. Why didn't the police act and remove these illegal firearms? and (b) The adults who enabled the illegal possession of firearms and ammunition by these children need to be charged.
Don´t blame the normal everyday people of the U.S. this is the work of republicans and the NRA .
By normal I mean people who have to work more hours for less pay and health benefits . The
monsteres responcible for this are the far right rich who have bought out our country from
cheesy congressmen who have no concious or feelings for the poor and middle class Americans .
Get off the GOP and NRA crap – your diatribe is very tiring and of course you CHOOSE to ignore how many lives have been saved by gun owners that have protected their families and their homes in break-ins and robbery attempts. By the way 7 of the 10 richest in Congress are Democrats NOT GOP. Cheesy DEMOCRATIC tax structures on SMALL and large businesses that PROVIDE jobs have COST jobs and you can thank the Democrats for jobs going overseas to avoid excessive tax burdens. If you have read history you might recall that we fled England to avoid taxes and now business and people are fleeing here for the same reason. Look in your Democratic mirror and look at Detroit before you start criticizing the GOP. by the way I think both parties are to blame but cited Democrats because of your citing GOP. They both need to have to live under the rules they make for the rest of us.
It's just not fair! ZERO gun killings since '96 you say? How about we ship about 50 million blacks to Aussie land and see who has the 80 murders per day then?
ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF BIASED REPORTING AND NON FACTUAL CONTENT: The usual Piers Morgan distortion of facts. The population of Australia is 21.6 million the population of the United states is 311.8 million. Perhaps that would account for more gun violence in the US seeing that there are 290.2 million more people living in the United States. DUH – and CNN wonders WHY low ratings? Distorted NEWS and FACTS
Um, are you familiar with the aborigine people? Australia has plenty of blacks and as a doctor I can tell you irrefutably that no race is more or less inclined to violence.
It's the culture they grow up in and the anger against a society that as you put it, wants to ship them off to another country. You'll find far more poor people in prison than blacks and Hispanics combined. Take a sociology class it will change your life. Take care.
What do sociologists have against poor people? Why is the murder rate less in West Virginia and poor parts of Appalachia than in poor parts of America's cities? Poor people aren't more likely to kill. Poor urban African-American people are more likely to kill. Poor people who have a bad moral compass, anger against the mainstream culture, and who are involved in drugs and criminality are more likely to kill.
It's time for sociologists to stop making excuses for inner city youth. There needs to be a real tangible consequence for every crime no matter how small. There needs to be a common set of high expectations for moral behavior and achievement for every member of society regardless of religion and race.
Blacks are a federally protected species in America. They're allowed to f* up every community and there's nothing whites can do to stop them, except be armed for our own safety. If Australia and every other country had to deal with this problem, you'd understand. PIERS MORGAN DOESN'T LIKE TO TALK ABOUT BLACK ON WHITE CRIME: THE KNOXVILLE MASSACRE, THE WICHITA MASSACRE, BLACK ON WHITE ATTACKS IN EVERY AMERICAN CITY DAILY. HE HAS TO BLAME LEGAL WHITE GUN OWNERSHIP AND DISARM WHITES SO BLACKS CAN KILL US. NOW, YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM.
PIERS MORGAN is an embarrassment to JOURNALISM: The usual Piers Morgan distortion of facts. The population of Australia is 21.6 million the population of the United states is 311.8 million. Perhaps that would account for more gun violence in the US seeing that there are 290.2 million more people living in the United States. DUH – and CNN wonders WHY low ratings? Distorted NEWS and FACTS
Jim,
I'm guessing you don't understand what "per capita" means. What the prime minister is saying is that you are 15 times more likely to be killed by a gun in the US than in Australia. He is not saying that there are 15 times more gun related murders in Australia than the US, there are around 300 times more gun-related murders in the US than in Australia.
The articles I post on this site explain the problem black on white crime and guns.
https://www.facebook.com/zimmerman.victory
Vick Zimmer Really No need for all THIS…"Blacks are a federally protected species in America. They're allowed to f* up every community and there's nothing whites can do to stop them, except be armed for our own safety"...This is funny I think you need to relax take a vacation or go on a date or something...These three youths are not the poster child for many black youth in "OUR" get it "OUR" great Nation not just yours VICK.....So just think sometimes before you write or speak nobodys trying to take what you got..LOL and you shouldn't refer to another human life their animals or something "Protected Species" Really.. Grow up and have more uplifting and intellegent responses..But otherwise have a Great day Sir...My Fellow American:)
Although I'm not exactly certain, I believe it took only a few days for President Obama to "speak out" about the whole Treyvon Martin incident. Mrs. Obama repeatedly spoke about it. It's been over 24 hours and I haven't heard a peep out of the White House about this. In the President's famous words "any one of these 3 young men could have been my son." Of course, why would he would to admit that.
Yeah, you are wrong. Trayvon Martin story didnt even make national news until almost a month later. BO didn't give his speech until that spring once it became a national media fascination. If this becomes as big as the TM story, he would not have a choice but to speak about it. Hell, it was about 3 or 4 days after Sandy Hook until he made a speech about it.
You won't its not on their agenda
Obama's comment was made 25 days after the shooting of TM.
Zimmerman was arrested 45 days after the shooting.
If they'd run him over with the car, we wouldn't be having a gun debate, but people would still have a race debate. It would appear, from this article, that they just wanted to kill anyone. So there goes the race debate if that's true. BUT... It'll always be a gun debate because guns are so widely accessible in America. And it's the dumbest thing we could've done. Guns are designed to hit /destroy a target. Maim or kill. To hunt. And anybody can get one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-gun. I see where they fit into the scheme of things – survial , protection, sport, etc... But to not be able to pass universal background checks on something so sensible... it's disgusting. I'm disgusted at America's inability to pass real gun reform. It's mainly so disgusting b/c the loss of life still cannot hold a light to the Almighty Dollar.
Priorities people. Get 'em straight.
I agree however, we should also begin a discussion about the callousness of many young people. I can't imagine that " we hust wanted to kill someone" should be a discussion topic that kids are having...
Just because YOU can't imagine it, doesn't mean that isn't what happened.
So, when Trayvon Martin gets shot, CNN focuses on race because it fits their beloved white on black crime narrative. When a white baseball player gets killed by a black teenager, CNN focuses on the guns.
Even if it was race-related, we should always talk about how widely accessible guns are in America.
Please let Trayvon Martin rest in peace. It's a shame that the ignorance, predjudice and ill will that cost a young persons life is very much alive and well and on display in forums like this ...
And yet, it wasn't on display when three bored kids chose to shoot someone so that they would have something to do??? If you honestly think that the victims race had nothing to do with this, your head is too far in the sand for you to have any comment on this.
"If you honestly think that the victims race had nothing to do with this, your head is too far in the sand for you to have any comment on this." TiredOfTheCrap, What evidence do you have that race had anything to do with this? Do you know something we don't, or do you just "feel" that way? You are no better than the people who belive that Zimmerman profiled Martin because of his race. Sheesh!
Piers, will stomp on the grave of any dead hero to promote his gun hatred! Kudos CNN for having such a "wonderful" person working for you.
"Hero" – the new Murcan euphemism for baby-killing, civilian raping, inbred trailer-trash f@gg0ts.
Interesting read through the message board on this one. Typical hate and misguided thoughts – although, I do agree with those that Piers is a pathetic excuse for a journalist.
In this case, the parents of these criminals need to go down for this, too! I have seen too many photos of their moms and dads crying and claiming they are innocent. Well, in the end, with all the photos and footage of these kids all over the net pointing/waiving guns, etc, THE PARENTS ARE TO BLAME. If they live in your home, keep an eye on what your kids do! These three "boys" obviously didn't have jobs to pay for the computers, phones, etc, that let them post this stuff all over (much less the guns/bullets). The parents did, and then didn't monitor their kids. If one of mine had posted a video like the one on the Vine of the kid pointing the gun at the camera, they wouldn't be out in society to cause any issues for a long, long time.
It's time to take accountability for our ability to reproduce. Too many parents have no issue making kids, but all too often there is no responsibility taken to bring them up. From the info available on social network about these kids, this did not happen overnight. It's obvious that none of their parents did even a "bad" job at raising them – that would give the parents too much credit.
Forget about the black/white, Repbu/Dem, Gun control, and all that crap! This particular case is proof that none of those things matter as much as how we raise our kids – or choose not to raise them.
your central theme is to blame...everyone and everything. What about solutions?
The solution is take responsibility when you think that you are mature enough to create a life! S e x creates a life. If you are not ready (or able) to raise a child that could come from that act, you are not ready for that act. We as a society have proven that we cannot use birth control properly in any form. We also know that NO ONE is going to tell us how to behave, or what we can/can't do with our bodies, so my words fall on deaf ears.
These guys were "bored", so they killed a guy! No amount of legislation would have stopped that. If they didn't have a gun, they could have knifed him. They wanted to kill someone. What is your solution, big fella?
Mine is – Keep it in your pants if you don't want the hassle of raising a kid!
Read the post from Red_Rain: it is very insightful and thouight provoking (if you're listening and seeking solutions)
This is making me re
think my position on gun control...enough is enough...as an American I am sick of it, and I am sick of the NRA...I understand people standing up for the second Amendment...but it is clear WE HAVE A PROBLEM....
Congrats for seeing the light. But why do you understand why people would stand up for the 2nd Amendment? What militia did these boys belong to?
How are more gun laws going to help anything? It's not like laws against murder prevented these thugs from killing Christopher.
And it's not like car safety laws prevented people who died in car accidents from dying. I hate the arguments of "more laws won't do anything, so why have them at all?" because there are delusional people who honestly believe that. Okay, let's strike murder, theft, and all those big no-nos from the books. Obviously the laws don't work, so get rid of them–it just puts unnecessary strain on the law-abiding citizens who kill to protect themselves.
The leftists in Australia don’t blame the amoral, asocial thugs who murdered a decent human being. No, they blame the gun. As if it had a mind of its own." ...
"Hey Tim. The problem isn’t gun control. The problem is crime control."
You're right, guns don't kill people, people do. For that reason, I'm trying to convince the government to allow me to own a tank. The 2nd amendment is becoming obsolete with all the weapons the government is gathering that could potentially be used against me, so we should be allowed to have tanks.
After all, the tanks don't have minds, so they're harmless, and I shouldn't be denied unregulated access to whatever weapons I want because this is "Land of the Free," damn it.
What the Prime Minister doesn't know is that blacks can murder at will and they are ALWAYS THE VICTIMS! Just ask O. J. Simpson. These three will be treated with preferential treatment because of what people 400 years ago did to their ancestors who died 400 years ago. Jessie Jackson, Louis Farrakahn, Jeremiah Wright and Al Sharpton should tell their race that THEY WERE SOLD INTO SLAVERY BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE OFF THE COAST OF AFRICA!! These ignorant, backward, Sociopaths who probably dropped out of school and are burdens on Society will probably never serve any time because they are minors and they are black!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND BY THE WAY PRESIDENT OBAMA WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THIS???????????????????? The silence of the "Gang of Four and President Obama," speaks volumes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What about the white kid who was the driver? How do you explain him?
Based on appearance - NOT "white" – mixed.
By the NAACP's own "one drop rule", this kid is black.
If that kid's "white," then so is Obama. You can't claim to be a minority only when it suits you.
400 years ago?? huh? The United States wasn't even a country that long ago. Lets try roughly 160 years ago. About 6 generations. Keep in mind that blacks were only allowed basic civil rights barely 50 years ago. My mother(who is only 58) was born in a time where blacks were treated like less than humans. So lets not talk like injustices against blacks are ancient history. WIth that said, we have come a long way as a country. Hopefully when the younger more diverse generation begin to grow and run this country we can start to get past that terrible history.
You must be white and totally ignorant. What a dumb comment
Ew, ew, ew, I hate when you have people using these situations to try and justify their racist rants. The fact that there are actually people like you in positions of power who believe this crap shows the discrimination against minorities, but in reality, this is a case where 3 kids approached and shot a foreign student without provocation because they were "bored." The fact that human life can be lost so callously is indicative of something truly frightening in this country; guns have virtually become a method of alleviating boredom, and if that doesn't instill concern in you, then there's really no hope.
Oh where's the "do profile me" people??? Just because of three brain dead hicks shoot some buddy in the back don't lump gun owners in with them or some nut from Conn. or Col.. If your going to do that fine , then start profiling middle eastern males 20-40 years of age comming into to this country.
What are you talking about? They get profiled all the time, as do other minorities. I'm all for avoiding making everything into a race issue when it's seemingly irrelevant, but to deny that minorities don't face more discrimination in comparison to Anglo-Saxons is ludicrous.
@ brk5239:
Well said!
America is a hell hole, plain and simple, its a sad and pathetic place
...but yet you are here blogging. I never been to Australia and never care to go. I don't know the name of your King or President and really don't care. However, you seem to be all twisted up with America. Why do you care?
It's actually quite nice where I live. But if you're free to live a life in ignorance if that's what you want.
What's it like living in the toilet of the world, where the sheep actually think that they are "free" and have "rights"?
it's actually really sweet here, buddy. Our minimum wage is high enough that we don't need 3 jobs to survive. The streets are safe at any time of day and night. No guns around, low murder rate, free press with objective journalism, public subsidized healthcare, national disability care, and our Parliament actually puts through laws for the most part.
And we can make fun of our leaders all night, every night, on television. Without getting arrested.
How's things on your end?
I assumed he was speaking of the US because he made it a point to emphasize "freedom" and "rights." Either way, anyone who is content with the state of affairs here really is delusional, especially after this atrocity, but I'm not going to go siding with this guy either, because what good is calling people "sheep" from a pedestal going to do?
Sir you need to come here to South Central IL, we dont have these problems here in Salem, IL.. I can walk this city all hours of the day and night without fear. We would have more problems with our police than other citizens. Using Gun Control is a COPOUT!!!! It comes down to how you RAISE your children . Before I allowed my children on social media I wanted passwords. Also wanted PWs for email accounts. Would also walk into their bedrooms to see what they were doing on the computer. Would also check Histories to see where they are going on the internet. PARENTS need to be held more accountable. I was raised by a single poor mother but she didnt let us run wild or be disrespectful to others. Point.....it IS parenting.
can not be put any better! take care of your own and the rest will take care itself
I know it is fashionable to blame guns for evil acts but would it not have been just as easy for these punks to run this unfortunate man down with their car. I mean when someone or some group decides to randomly kill an individual I'm not sure there is much that can stop them. This is really not a good case for the gun control argument.
That's the thing, though: they didn't run him down. With no national gun registration, even if these guns were at some point obtained legally by someone acquainted with the 3 teens, there's no way to trace it back to its origins. Obviously they decided that it was more convenient to shoot Chris Lane than it was to just run him down, which it was, considering there's no need to worry about damage to the car incriminating them.
The only reason people keep "coming back to blame the guns" is because they're confused why, when guns are obviously part of the problem, we still refuse to even acknowledge that, much less discuss it.
"And yet, it wasn't on display when three bored kids chose to shoot someone so that they would have something to do??? If you honestly think that the victims race had nothing to do with this, your head is too far in the sand for you to have any comment on this"
Race could have been a motivating factor but how can you charge a hate crime when the victim and one of the perps were both white? Another one half white? Doesn't make sense.
No one asked you to come to America. Stay in Australia where you are safe. Anyone who wants to leave the last time I checked the doors were not locked. They are plenty of lovely countries with strict guns laws. I'm sure they would love to have you. When you leave take shut the door and please take Piers with you.
Sure, it’s the “gun culture”. It’s not the vicious cold-blooded murder of a white by blacks BECAUSE of his skin color. No, it’s only a “HATE” crime when a white kills a black. Ala James Byrd. Keep your head in the sand Piers and the rest of America, FOX included.
You know, people who are now crying "hate crime" are probably guilty of the same hypocrisy they're accusing the other party of. Were all of you insisting that the Martin case was a "hate crime"? I won't say my opinion in the matter, because that's not the current issue at hand.
Why is the focus on whether or not we should be admonishing the other side for refusing to presume motive instead of looking at the facts of the issue?
Guns already are outlawed to these thugs who shot this man. No new law can make it even more illegal. Liberals cannot seem to wrestle with that fact.
How can anyone believe this is about guns... explain to me the cause and effect of taking guns away from responsible gun owners, leaving only the police officers and criminals with guns. I have yet to hear or understand how anyone is going to get the illegal guns off the streets. These kids did not have responsible parents, otherwise they would not have had access to the weapons. Also, these young men obviously had no up bringing, I would wager they had baby mommas and baby daddy's instead of moms and dads... this is a cultural problem.
Gun control issue? Surely you jest. Hollywood issue? Absurd. The issue here is bad parenting.
Ok, so being a person who thinks the lax gun laws in this country are pretty ridiculous, hard to blame them in this case. These kids were bound for trouble regardless.
Lax gun laws? I'm sorry but what are gun laws going to do to prevent a crime like this? It's not like our laws against murdering someone protected Tim from getting killed.
Typo. I meant to say HIM and not "Tim"
What about the hundreds of people that are killed by the murderous Australian wildlife every year??
BAN SPIDERS AND SNAKES YOU SQUIRM-NUTS
I'll bet you have a..........................REALLY BIG GUN!
.......and a tiny little penis.
Typical prog d*ck fixation.
When you have no argument, discuss genitalia..
Recycled... is that what the NRA tells you to say?
Australia we are sorry, but you don't get it either. It was the lack of morals. If no guns were available they would have stabbed him or attacked him with baseball bats or simply run him over. Would that have made you happier? When people say they want to kill for fun you can't stop them. People just don't get it. Its not the guns fault, its the lack of morals.
It's "deep seeded", not "seated".
not that I'm pro-gun (I'm relatively ambivalent) but his #s don't make sense – if US has 80/day that's 29K/yr; US population is 14x AUS which on a per capita basis would be 2,076/yr; if I'm 15x higher per capita (per million is redundant) that still predicts 138 gun deaths/yr in Australia while he's claiming they have virtually zero.
again, I'm not pro-gun but I am pro-math & his doesn't add up...
WHY HONEST Americans bear arms: BEDFORD, Iowa – Authorities say an escaped inmate suspected of shooting a southwest Iowa sheriff's deputy has been killed by a homeowner who said the armed man broke into his house.
Rodney Long was shot to death after he broke into a retired farm couple's home in Bedford about 10:15 p.m. Monday, awakening them. Long, who was armed with a handgun, cut their telephone lines and used their cell phone, Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation Special Agent Mitch Mortvedt said.
After about four hours, Jerome Mauderly, 71, shot Long with a shotgun in the kitchen of the home he shares with his wife, Carolyn, 66.
"As the situation wore on the decision was made by the Mauderlys they were going to defend themselves," Mortvedt said. "At 2:11 a.m. the Taylor County Sheriff's Office received a 911 call from Carolyn Mauderly."
She told a dispatcher that her husband had shot an intruder.
An Iowa State Patrol officer was nearby and quickly responded, finding Long face down on the kitchen floor, Mortvedt said. No one else was injured.
Iowa officers, with help from Missouri officers and a Nebraska State Patrol aircraft, had been searching for Long since Sunday night, scouring about 16 square miles, after a southern Iowa sheriff's deputy was shot, Mortvedt said. They had searched the Mauderlys' property three times. The home is about 5 miles west of Bedford.
We need some outrage here....some marches in the streets, maybe a phone call or two from Chairman Obama...sign up some celebs who need some 'righteous indignation' cred...you know...make the media rounds. C'mon folks, lets play their game-it could be a lot of fun.
sarcasm off.
The liberals and gun grabbers and the liberal media who are salivating for another shooting story ..will blame racism if a black person is shot by a white person..and if a white person is shot by a black, it's the guns fault...And if it is blacks shooting other blacks which by far is the most common,the media will largely ignore it.....Pathetic.
Let's stop confusing "gun culture" with "thug culture." Statistics don't lie...the percentage of gun owners who commit crimes is significantly lower than the percentage of blacks who commit crimes. Enough beating around the bush, let's call this what it is and face it head on.
Exactly! More gun laws won't solve anything. It will only restrict the rights of law abiding citizens. We need better education, better parenting, and much more severe punishments for crimes such as this.
A couple of new studies reveal the gun-control hypesters’ worst nightmare…more people are buying firearms, while firearm-related homicides and suicides are steadily diminishing. What crackpots came up with these conclusions? One set of statistics was compiled by the U.S. Department of Justice. The other was reported by the Pew Research Center.
According to DOJ’s Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. gun-related homicides dropped 39 percent over the course of 18 years, from 18,253 during 1993, to 11,101 in 2011. During the same period, non-fatal firearm crimes decreased even more, a whopping 69 percent. The majority of those declines in both categories occurred during the first 10 years of that time frame. Firearm homicides declined from 1993 to 1999, rose through 2006, and then declined again through 2011. Non-fatal firearm violence declined from 1993 through 2004, then fluctuated in the mid-to-late 2000s.
And where did the bad people who did the shooting get most of their guns? Were those gun show “loopholes” responsible? Nope. According to surveys DOJ conducted of state prison inmates during 2004 (the most recent year of data available), only two percent who owned a gun at the time of their offense bought it at either a gun show or flea market. About 10 percent said they purchased their gun from a retail shop or pawnshop, 37 percent obtained it from family or friends, and another 40 percent obtained it from an illegal source.
While firearm violence accounted for about 70 percent of all homicides between 1993 and 2011, guns were used in less than 10 percent of all non-fatal violent crimes. Between 70 percent and 80 percent of those firearm homicides involved a handgun, and 90 percent of non-fatal firearm victimizations were committed with a handgun. Males, blacks, and persons aged 18-24 had the highest firearm homicide rates.
The March Pew study, drawn from numbers obtained from the Bureau of Justice Statistics and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, also found a dramatic drop in gun crime over the past two decades. Their accounting shows a 49 percent decline in the homicide rate, and a 75 percent decline of non-fatal violent crime victimization. More than 8 in 10 gun homicide victims in 2010 were men and boys. Fifty-five percent of the homicide victims were black, far beyond their 13 percent share of the population.
Forbes, May 2013
But, but, but, – guns don't kill people, people kill people.
If only he had been jogging with an AK-47 he would have been so much safer....
Gun idiots.
Remember – bombs don't kill people either! People kill people.
The denial and ignorance of the rabid, pro-gun at all costs minority has and will cause the death of thousands of more innocents.
People have been murdering people for millenia, and in America's current moral wasteland you call a culture, do you really think banning guns is going to change that? Talk about denial and ignorance, you'd rather slap a bandaid on a gaping wound than sew it up right. Maybe you'll see a decrease in gun crime, but the underlying causes of that crime will still be there, and people will find alternatives to firearms.
Clueless; when people want to kill they will and guns will not deter them and these lost boys wanted to kill – for FUN!
your the minority idiot. my grandma would be dead if wasn't for having a gun when 3 idiots broke into her house!!!!!! go live in europe if its so bad here
Speaking of violence, does anyone remember that time Jeremy Clarkson punched Piers Morgan in the face? I chuckle every time I think about it.
Here is what Mr. Fischer and those who don't live in the US fail to understand about our country....money trumps all. Politicians don't rule our country, corporations do. And there is a LOT of money being made by gun manufacturers and those who run the gun shows. That is a gravy train that will be impossible for the average American to stop.
Nice strawman you got there.
No actual American is interested in changing the second amendment. Only progs who think that history began with the day of their own birth believe that there needs to be a change in the rights of Americans because of a few sick puppies.
Tell you what stud, let's do something sensible like make people show ID before they vote. Then we can talk about your gun fear and why I should care about it.
Keeping beating that tin drum though. Barry and Pierce are so proud
Sorry, you can try that line but we know it to be the typical liberal line. You will NEVER correct crime with less guns. Only when morals are corrected will we have a less violent society.
Fischer left out that home invasions are up 400% and dozens of people are beat to death weekly in their homes by Muslims or drug addicts. Why? They know there are no guns.
Greetings from Sarah Palin, the tea party patriots and the NRA.
Is that supposed to be an "argument"? Your jealousy of actual functional adult humans is laughable.Interesting how you dogs return to your own vomit. Is that you pierce?
It can't be ! You moved back to your gun free paradise! I think Pierce should donate every dollar he earns to this family. You know , to show us cretins how the Euro trash do it!
"This Canadian will be spending travel dollars in more civilized countries."
Please take PIerce with you!
So when a hispanic kills a black with a gun it racist, when blacks kill whites, it gun control. Where is Sharpton. You liberals S U C K!!
Everytime I think of Sarah Palin I think of trailer trash. Everytime I think of trailer trash I think of tea party patriots. Everytime time I think of tea party patriots I think of nascar. Everytime I think of nascar I think of assault weapons. Everytime I think of assault weapons I think of Sarah Palin. Everytime I think of Sarah Palin I think of trailer trash. Everytime I think of...
Progressivism is a mental disease ( see above nursery rhyme).I'm sure that this nursery rhyme makes sense to the poor drooling , gibbering soul that wrote it.
The reason progs want to take your guns is that they project their insanity on you. When you are crazy , you think that you are the only one who is sane.
It's not gun culture, it's gang culture.
We arrive in rusty 1964 motorhomes.
We bring our bibles and loaded assault weapons.
We wear ridiculous clothing and have teabags dangling from our earlobes.
We carry misspelled racist signs as we stomp all over the White house lawn.
We eat Chick-fil-A and wash it down with Everclear.
We are Sarah Palin's real Americans.
We love the baby jesus but we love to boink our cousins even more.
We believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old and that early man walked with the dinosaurs.
We believe that nascar is a real sport and that Dale Earnhardt was a great American athlete.
We are the birthers. We are tea party patriots.
We are bigots and inbreds. We are morons and we are proud.
we dont shoot people in the back because we feel like it
Yep, that pretty much sums up the conservative movement.
I can tell your not a racist. That's very good logic blame it white trash cause 3 black kids killed a white. for you idiot comes to mind. Im sure your a Obammy supporter. @ dee 5010 yes I would if I knew that that trash was carry a weapon. say what you want but most crimes are committed from black youth , parentless or single parent families, FACT. Address the real problem instead of blaming bush
Would agree with you if your facts were correct.... which they are NOT!!!!! One of the teens arrested was white. Also, per the FBI reports in 2011 (2012 is not released yet), most crimes are disproportionately committed by WHITES!!!! This isn't biased, it's the FBI report.....
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
Does not matter what race they are. Wrong is wrong!
You should not be using the absolute numbers from that FBI report but translate it to a percentage compared to the demographics of the entire country. As of 2010, the US population was estimated to be 72.4% White and 12.6% Black. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity
The FBI webpage shows a total number of approx. 9.5mil crimes of which 6.578mil were committed by Whites and 2.697mil were committed by Blacks. On a percentage basis that is 69.24% committed by Whites and 28.39% committed by blacks.
So, following the numbers, about 28.39% of crime is committed by 12.6% of the population (about 2.25:1 ratio) while 69.24% of the crime is committed by 72.4% of the population (about a 0.96:1 ratio). It would follow that, statistically speaking, Blacks are 2.34x as likely to commit a crime as compared to Whites. Someone please check my math, because I may be looking at the numbers wrong. This is for all crimes (violent, property, white collar, etc.) I did not break out violent crime only, although it would be possible to do so with the FBI data provided.
Also, to be clear, the FBI report does not break down the offenders life situation (single parent family, prior offences, etc.).
Accurate!
He is right!! I'm angry at the black community too
"I just want to say that it would appeal to the deep thinkers in the USA to think again about the drift in the state of the nation."
There are none.
I've been sorta depressed lately, so I will just come out and say it. I'm American. And that's where it ends. I'm not proud of it. I don't feel good about what I see and hear every day. Sirens wailing down the street. People, all black, walking down the street, their pants sagging down to their knees saying n*gger this and n*igger that. I don't like seeing trash on the side of the road, vomit outside my house, dog crap on the sidewalk. I don't know. This whole story just makes me sick. It reminds me of all the reasons why I hate this place. And please don't remind me that if I don't like it I can leave. I know that. I also know that other places are worse. It’s really not this place I hate. It’s this entire world. Do you know the only thing I'm thankful for? The only thing I enjoy? I enjoy sleeping and riding a motorcycle. But the very minute I see another person, I am prepared to give up something that he/she needs. They invariably need something. Money. A favor. They always need something. But like I said, I'm depressed, so...
This is not about guns.
It's not about race.
It's about morons with no parenting skills giving birth to morons with dangerous fantasies.
That Australian kid was wonderful, and I hope if there's something after this miserable existence on Earth, he's in a far better place.
it is just a matter of time before lynch mobs become the norm and these black thugs and child abusers and the like are dragged from their low places., jail cells, court room and murdered in the streets where and as it should be done.
we need to make this a reality so that fear creates a better behaved subculture we are stuck with thanks to free meal tickets ala wellfare and free living for these black brood sows.
So I suppose you would do the same to all the white criminals arrested is much HIGHER rates per the FBI report?!? Nice try though!!! How about reporting facts instead of nonsense.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
This is a repost because you continue to cite statistics without adjusting for the actual demographics of the country:
You should not be using the absolute numbers from that FBI report but translate it to a percentage compared to the demographics of the entire country. As of 2010, the US population was estimated to be 72.4% White and 12.6% Black. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity
The FBI webpage shows a total number of approx. 9.5mil crimes of which 6.578mil were committed by Whites and 2.697mil were committed by Blacks. On a percentage basis that is 69.24% committed by Whites and 28.39% committed by blacks.
So, following the numbers, about 28.39% of crime is committed by 12.6% of the population (about 2.25:1 ratio) while 69.24% of the crime is committed by 72.4% of the population (about a 0.96:1 ratio). It would follow that, statistically speaking, Blacks are 2.34x as likely to commit a crime as compared to Whites. Someone please check my math, because I may be looking at the numbers wrong. This is for all crimes (violent, property, white collar, etc.) I did not break out violent crime only, although it would be possible to do so with the FBI data provided.
@John:
Just want to point out that your usage of the word "committed" should be replaced with more factually accurate words, like "convicted for" or "arrested for" depending on the source of your stats.
It is an unfortunate fact that people are arrested and convicted for crimes they did not commit and that there are people who do commit crimes for which they avoid arrest and/or conviction.
Fair enough, that is a possibility. I was only using the data that the original poster presented in a misleading way.
What stricter or harsher gun law would have saved this man since these youths were breaking at least 20 guns laws right from the start?
Exactly! Gun laws NEVER apply to criminals!
OK, so Piers Morgan tries to focus the problem on gun laws.
But really, everyone knows that is African American criminals who cause us to be viewed negatively by the rest of the world. That's African American criminals from the ghetto right on up to the White House.
Lets call it what it is Piers.
Take a look at the 2011 FBI "Crimes in the United States report (2012 isn't out yet). Staggering disproportionate amount of crimes committed by whites..... nice try though!!!!!
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
This is a repost because you continue to cite statistics without adjusting for the actual demographics of the country:
You should not be using the absolute numbers from that FBI report but translate it to a percentage compared to the demographics of the entire country. As of 2010, the US population was estimated to be 72.4% White and 12.6% Black. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity
The FBI webpage shows a total number of approx. 9.5mil crimes of which 6.578mil were committed by Whites and 2.697mil were committed by Blacks. On a percentage basis that is 69.24% committed by Whites and 28.39% committed by blacks.
So, following the numbers, about 28.39% of crime is committed by 12.6% of the population (about 2.25:1 ratio) while 69.24% of the crime is committed by 72.4% of the population (about a 0.96:1 ratio). It would follow that, statistically speaking, Blacks are 2.34x as likely to commit a crime as compared to Whites. Someone please check my math, because I may be looking at the numbers wrong. This is for all crimes (violent, property, white collar, etc.) I did not break out violent crime only, although it would be possible to do so with the FBI data provided.
Another note: The FBI data is of reported crimes/crimes committed. Whether or not the statistics represent actual convictions or miscarriages of justice is unknown.
Muchas gracias. ?Como puedo iniciar sesion?
what do you expect from sub human animals and thugs that have no more than the education of a feral dog?
we need to make the loss of citizenship and deportation the law of the land.,
deport the entire family extendedmembers too and either execute or jail these criminal offenders immediately after trial., then deport them back to Africa or where ever when they are released.,
white? or black commit a crime?
blame the government you supposedly voted for?
you can be deported too.,
I hear the E.U. has a good economic outlook may be if this country is so messed up you can self deport?
America for Americans and good people need to apply., all others should be removed ,deported and or culled like diseased cattle.
I wonder if Australia would allow reasonable, lawful Americans to emigrate there as refugees of the civil war that seems to be gripping the U.S. I feel so powerless and sad about the death of this promising young man. And, I'm nobody special or important, not like our Prez, but if I had had a son, I would like to think he would have been like Christopher Lane.
It is not about the guns, it is about the lack of punishment for the crimes.
this engineered thug class helps to destroy America every day and it starts in the farms called public schools where you are placed on a path or you are removed from the government plantation/ farm and become part of this thug class because you do not fit the mold for the new world order citizen oh I mean "worker" or government stooge or political lakie stooge.
If you ask too many questions are too smart you are removed from the farm as quickly as they can get rid of you.
America's gun culture? No. America's thug culture. Don't lump responsible gun owners in with ghetto trash CNN. Disgusting.
Most of the homicides in this country are done by people who vote, would vote if they could, democrat. Sorry. Don't blame this on the right for your culture of violence.
As much as it pains me to see the gun violence, I would *NEVER* support the disarming of civilians.
The US Federal government has proven time & again that it cannot be trusted with protecting our rights. There is no doubt in my mind that, eventually, this will lead to a popular uprising. It is only a matter of time before some world event puts our economy so deep in a hole that no matter of flag waving or misdirection will convince the people that everything is going to be all right. People will starve in the streets, and you'll see a French Revolution... heads rolling.
No doubt Obama, Bush, and the rest of the American Nobility would LOVE to disarm us... And they'll continue to try.
But it won't happen. Ever.
Once again...this has nothing to do with guns, it has more to do with the three BLACK men who can't act like civilized human beings
One of boys was white.... nice try though!!!
Does no good to argue with these GOP clowns. Their logic: All blacks are thugs. Thugs shoot innocent people. Therefore, this boy MUST be black. Up is down, over is under and out is in! makes snese to them!
See? in america even killers appreciate diversity! USA!USA!USA!
THE FACES OF EVIL. These little "Blac: boys are not EVIL!! With this being displayed in such a way, people will look at little black boys as EVIL. Let me tell you what is EVIL. That their ancestors were brought to this county in a EVIL way! That the very people who posted this are just as EVIL. America has a EVIL history to say the least. RACISM. Yeah I said it! These boys did a horrible act YES! But they are not EVIL. They are lost and confused in a nation that is unequal to this day, and has fallen short in MANY ways! So do not JUDGE. The movies, the media, the violence is all around and they just depicted what they see "EVERYDAY". If they would have had afterschool, summer programs etc, to keep them off the street, then EVIL would not happen! AMERICAN GET A GRIP ON LIFE AND NOT A GUN!
And now we have apologists for evil. Slavery bad – we get it. But it is not racism that caused this no matter what you say! If blacks don't like it here LEAVE; there are plenty of successful blacks – the difference is between their morals. Quit making excuses for evil. The mere fact that you would even say something like this suggests you yourself are EVIL!
I see nothing but sick and pathetic excuses from you PB. Murdering someone in cold blood like that is ENTIRELY evil. If you believe otherwise, then you need your head examined.
I abhor the treatment of slaves by whites in the United States; but just remember that it was the African blacks themselves who captured and then SOLD their less fortunate people as slaves to whites and others. Slavery is still going on in Africa. This does not excuse what the white landowners did with them once they got them, but everyone including the powerful blacks in Africa were involved and in on the slave trade! So what the hell, you cannot blame just the whites, look at everyone, look at human nature unchecked by religion, ethics, values or morals!!
What if they had killed him with a baseball bat instead of a gun? Perhaps run him down with their car. What would these schmucks propose be done then?
As long as the human species is predisposed to kill one another they will. There doesn't have to be a "good" reason. Shutting the door on gun possession does nothing to abate that fact. More innocent people are killed by drunk drivers than guns yet nobody is clamoring for the removal of cars or a reenactment of prohibition.
How can the twits make like for like comparisons of the two countries when Australia has a population of roughly 24M people while the U.S. has approximately 313M. They would be best served if they kept their politics on their own shores.
Its not the same at all if they went after him with a baseball bat or hand combat. You are comparing armed to unarmed, and its not the same. If they launched a physical assualt on the guy, at least he would have a CHANCE to fight back and escape! He might have been able to grab a rock or a tree branch or use martial arts or just all out run for his life to escape. Physical Assaults require a close proximity to the victim, a gun does not. The gun gave the killers a grossly strong advantage over the victim, complete anonymity for them during the attack, and without any forwarning at all, the vitcim has absolutely no course of action to take to protect himself because he is totally unaware he has a gun aimed at him. This is why he had no way to survive the outcome of the shooting. With a physical assault, he would have had a chance to affect the outcome and might have survived.
Rubbish; they could have run him over with a car. People determined to kill ALWAYS can find a way.....
If it happended in Sandy Hook, it can happen any place. We have done nothing to fix the problem, and so it continues. To all Austrailans, be grateful you live there and not here. We have a shameful Congress.
Say a prayer for fthe amiles. Senseless.
Please be outraged, Australia, because we sure as well won't. – Sincerely, The United States
*Report Chemical Weapons Attack In Syria Kills 1,000+*
Go get those terrorist meanies, Jerry. Just make sure that you are unarmed.
Those three kids should be publically executed on live television! Public execution would put a stop to this type of senseless crimes!
The answers as to why we have or don't have certain laws are relatively simple. Just follow the money. That's what drives nearly everything in our lives nowadays. The gun lobby has tons of money and Congress today is bought lock, stock and barrel by the various lobbies in America. It doesn't matter what the polls say that the majority is for or against. On the other hand, you cannot be elected to Congress unless you can raise truck loads of money, so to get in you have to sell your soul.
We all know that modern societies that can be compared to the US are a lot safer due to their gun regulations. We also know that most modern countries have overall much better healthcare (overall, not anecdotally) for much less money than we spend in the U.S. You can go on and cite dozen of other examples, e.g. public transportation. But none of that matters so long as those interests with money benefit from the laws and regulations being what they are and their self-interests outweigh any interests for the kind of country we could be.
We stopped being a democracy a long time ago and Citizens United only pushed it over the cliff. Unfortunately, all short-term solutions would involve only non-democratic means. Not necessarily violence, but autocratic decisions such that lobbying would become illegal for instance. I don't think America is ready for that yet, but it may get there if the divide between the haves and have-nots increases, although there are many other societies with even greater chasms that have survived these inequalities unscathed for very long periods of time.
If Pres Obama had a son, perhaps he would look like one or more of these 3 thugs...
If Pres Obama had a son, perhaps he would look like one ore more of these 3 thugs...
This is real sad that he was killed,(And a big fan of Baseball) hearts and prayers go out to his family.. But there is anger towards every American cause of 3 Murderers..Let's be real..3 losers don't depict how every American is.
Typical irresponsible, liberal journalism jumping on "America's gun control" and not the punk thugs who pulled the trigger. This tragedy is but one among thousands committed by punks all over the country every year. And this being a black on white crime, will we hear any outrage from the NAACP and other African-American race-based self-interest groups? Don't hold your breath. This sad event doesn't score them any money or media highlights.
How come, on the Trayvon story, all you heard was a white guy killed a black kid for months, but Pierce , in his story last night, never ONCE mentioned it was 3 black thugs shooting a white guy??!!!!!! Where is Al Sharpton condemning this shooting? Star Jones last night and in video clip, says the poor boys who shot the kid, their lives are changed forever also. wah wah. We should revert back to the old days and hang these kids. Then in Pierces following story, afetr he has ranted about removing guns, his story is on an elderly couple that needed to protect themselves from a prison escapee intruder. If they were required to turn in their guns 6 months ago, they would be dead now. Unfortunately we are to far down the slope of a degraing society, where honest people need a way to protect themselves.
Piers Morgan wrote that Australia's gun control reforms "has virtually eliminated firearm crimes in the country." Evidently Piers has not come out of his liberal "fantasy land" long enough to check some actual statistics. news.com.au reported August 2, 2013 that there have been 39 people shot in Sydney this year. Conservative estimates say there are more than a quarter-of-a-million illegal firearms in Australia, and there has been a steady increase in gun-related crimes over the past seven years. "In the seven years from 2005 to 2012, gun murders across Australia almost doubled. The incidence of guns used in kidnappings trebled. The total number of crimes in which a firearm was used rose from 823 in 2005, to 1217 in 2012, an increase of 47 per cent." You can find the article here, http://www.news.com.au/national-news/is-australia-staring-down-the-barrel-of-a-gun-crisis/story-fncynjr2-1226690018325
So despite Piers Morgan's wishful thinking, gun control has NOT "virtually eliminated firearm crimes" in Australia. Some reports say that gun control in Australia has actually increased violent crime, as gun-toting criminals are now assured that their victims will be unarmed!
Instead of turning this horrendous murder as an excuse to score points for the liberal gun-control agenda, why not take a hard look at the factors that actually led to the attack, and try to find some solutions.
The issue is that Australian crime is lower to start with is also a factor.
in this case, a lack of thorough crminal background check and easy access to firearm by said perps. we're a violent society and unless any sensible controls are enforced... rinse, repeat. just hope and pray it doesn't happen to you and anyone you know. i don't think carrying my sidearm would have prevented me from getting shot in the back in this instance.
Guns are a problem (in the sense that too many criminals end up with them) but so is race-based anger and out of control violent crime disproportionately committed by African Americans. Until elected officials, academia, and the media, seriously discuss and acknowledge this, and demand personal accountability for one's behavior, nothing changes in America.
Of course there is a God; just because you can't see him doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Suppose you don't believe in air either....
Amen!
It's a great tragedy, that 3 confused young men* decided to shoot that young man, and I'm SURE that, since none of them are judges' kids, they will probably spend the rest of their lives in prison. However, I don't think we should start letting UK agents (Morgan and Murdoch, for starters) tell us how to run the country.
So, while it's nice to look at him, I don't think we should listen to Piers Morgan. We will get more done, listening to each other, instead of the talking heads.
*In the aftermath of the wrongful profiling, stalking, chasing and shooting to death of Trayvon Martin, MOST Americans are upset, and the Murdoch Media has often stirred that pot.
This wouldn't be a racial crime would it? Blacks killing a Caucasian? Probably not. If not already the Rev Sharpton will undoubtedly blame this shooting on our society, not the ones doing the killing. One mother has said that her boy is a good boy.
So maybe Americans should not go to Australia . . .
American man stabbed to death in Sydney
Posted Sat 23 Feb 2013, 11:59am AEDT
Map: Cecil Hills 2171
A woman has been refused bail after being charged with the stabbing murder of an American man in Sydney's south-west.
Emergency services were called to a Cecil Hills home just before midnight last night, after hearing reports a man had been stabbed.
When they arrived, they found a 32-year-old US citizen with chest injuries.
He was rushed to Liverpool Hospital by ambulance but died a short time later.
A 31-year-old woman was arrested at the home and has since been charged with murder.
She faced Parramatta Bail court this morning and was denied bail.
Police say the man and the women were known to each other.
WHOA!!! This is BIG NEWS!! An American was stabbed by an Aussie in Australia!! This is the proof that the NRA has been looking for! This means that tightening gun laws in America won't work. Congratulations, you've finally convinced Americans of the futility of controlling guns!
i'm shocked piers didn't try to make the perps out to be the real victims here.
these three should be killed – shot in that back of the head. THEY WILL NEVER BE ANYTHING BUT THUGS.
LETS START ELIMINATING TRASH LIKE THIS. MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE.
Sad commentary but the sentiment behind it, the notion that enough is enough of protecting, justifying punk-thug behavior is one that must make its way back to main stream America or we are doomed as a society. Evil punks will have their way if decent people don't fight back. And the fight begins with disproving the foolish belief by liberal whites that money thrown at social ills will fix all.
Americans are outraged at this senseless act as well. I am embarrassed to be an American because our leader and all his friends promote uneducated and unfit women to have babies with all of their welfare and free subsidies. Have a baby and we will feed it through the WIC program for four years, then place them in pre-k to feed and babysit them, and then give them free breakfast and lunch from k-12th grades all thanks to the 48% of Americans who pay taxes. In addition, we will give your momma welfare. We Americans wish the minority population would stop having children but they have them fast than any other race. We are sickened that such a nice kid was killed. I WOULD NEVER SEND MY CHILD TO THE US and I am a US citizen. I fear for my son every day because everywhere you look their are thugs. Dangerous country!
Smith
Good point smith... all have to do is change people like JAMES AKABUG.
Now that you've proved guns are not at fault, how do you plan to fix stupid people, so they shoot and kill us?
Let me guess we can reform television and Holllywood, get rid of the liberal media, revamp are educational system, arm all the white teachers and white school children, make individuals and families take personal responsibility, and purge evil from hearts of men.
Sounds like a much simpler solution than common sense gun reforms...
Quote: "Tim Fischer championed Australia's gun control reforms, an effort that has virtually eliminated firearm crimes in the country. " The uninformed comment of the year. There are daily shootings in western sydney alone.
Obama hates whites people
Tough talk from an island country that isnt being invaded from the south, deluged with drugs, didnt fight for independence, fight to free its slaves or sneak attacked. TERRIBLY sorry about your countryman but america is what it is. Please feel free to boycott, we still got your six.
Typical American arrogance
I'm disappointed CLinton News Network! Not one instance of mentioning these kids are part of the tea party like you usually do with gunmen! Not one instance of trying to connect them with Limbaugh and blaiming him for it! I'm curious is Obama going to take responsibility and say these coulda been his kids like he did with Trayvon! Where's Jesse jackson or Al sharkton on this issue like he was there for Trayvon Martin?! Oh, if only it were illegal for teenagers to get guns, oh, wait... waaah if only it were MORE illegal for teenagers to get guns waah! I'm bored1 Maybe it's time to listen to some rap music and make gangsta signs!
is no one seeing the silver lining here? That this proposed boycott may actually result in fewer Australian tourists visiting the U.S.? That actually sounds too good to be true.
If every country were to boycott visiting this country until we controlled the sale of guns, maybe something good would come of this
As an Australian from Melbourne, like Chris, who has been living in the US (Los Angeles) for a number of years, this case has been of personal interest to me.
I can fully say that I love the US and admire the opportunities it presents and have met so many wonderful people over here, including my American fiance, and have seen so many beautiful places. I've driven cross country and have visited the majority of this country's states.
However, the one aspect that shocks me, and many other Australians, is the rampant gun violence and the lack of gun control in this country. Like some other Australians have aforementioned, I find it hypercritical that the folks who rant that gun control takes freedoms don't know the freedom of not worrying about someone else having a gun during your daily errands or someone shooting you. There is a certain apprehension I have while traveling in American cities that I wouldn't have in Australian cities, or the cities I've been to in Asia or Europe.
Most Australians, myself included, don't understand how the most powerful country in the world, which often polices human rights and laws in other nations, allows its own citizens to carry firearms with minimal checks and continual mass murders of its own people. We're shocked that few in US government have the backbone (or delicately put: "the b*lls") or foresight for future Americans to place bans on guns. When the conservative John Howard administration placed an all-out gun ban in Australia in 1996, we heard the same arguments that we'd be losing our freedoms and we'd be less safe. Turns out that we are a safer, more stable society and don't have violent crime that plagues the US. I didn't particulary like John Howard, but admire him for having the courage to not cave-in to interest groups and political pressure.
The US does have the pesky thing called the 2nd Amendment, which some folks swear by. That law was written at a time over 230 years ago when the US was still at risk of a British invasion. The writers of the original Bill of Rights could not envision semi-automatic weapons and the destruction they could do. That amendment is outdated and does not apply to modern society. Yet many still believe it gives folks the God given right to have firearms in their suburban homes where children, as in this case, can have access to them. The NRA folks state that guns are the only solution to qualming fears, as everyone will be prepared if they are robbed or attacked. Why don't we just allow folks to protect themselves with grenade launchers? Ridiculous? Yes, but not any different in concept.
Some also state that if Chris had a gun, he could've protected himself. Come'on guys! The NRA expects us to jog around our neighborhoods clutching a gun just in case someone attacks? That doesn't sound like freedom to me and sounds more like an oppressing militia. I'd take my freedoms in Australia, or any other Westernized country, over that anyday.
If the assailants did't have guns and were intent on attacking Chris with a baseball bat or a knife, they would've had to have come in close proximity to him, giving him a chance to fight back or run. A gun gave him, or the countless other victims shot in the US, no chance to survive or defend themselves.
Sadly, the logic of this country when it comes to firearms is absurd and needs to be revised. I know there are many Americans who agree with me and it is just a fraction of citizens who won't let their guns go. Unfortunately, those folks have given America a bad image to other nations, including to Australia which is one of America's closest allies, and have unknowingly made this nation a more dangerous place. As much as I love the US, it is with a heavy heart that once my fiance completes grad school, we will seriously consider moving back to Australia because of the public safety, and to the shock of the NRA, the greater freedoms we have. I wish all of my American friends the best of luck on this social issue
Ryan, why is Utah's homicide rate the same as Australia's, even with liberal (i.e. permissive) gun laws? Why did the US homicide rate decline at a very similar rate to Australia's after Aus passed their big gun ban in the 90s?
Hi BSH,
As a casual observor, I don't know of any numbers to back your claims. From a personal and localised perspective, I do remember crime dropping here in Los Angeles in the 90's; namely due to tighter law enforcement against gang activity. Whether that action reflects the rest of the nation, I don't know. The drop in murders here in the US had no bearing or relation to the drop in Australia.
As far as Utah, are you speaking of per capita murders or the total amount of murders? If it's the same number of murders as Australia, then that would be a dismal record given Utah's much smaller population. If you are speaking of per capita, which I don't have any numbers to back your claim, but if it is true, it could be due to Utah's more rural population with SLC being the sole major metropiltan area. If that's the case, it would only be far to compare Utah to an Australian state, such as Western Australia, that has only one major city as well (Perth) and a similar population and rural percentage. I'd be certain the numbers favor WA. It'd be unfair to compare more populated regions of Australia, like Victoria or New South Wales, to rural parts of America.
Where's Alex Jones? We need him to spew venom and fecal matter in retalliation, at the mourning Australian family, and Australian spokesman.
Quoting ..."...people are thinking of going to the USA on business, vacation, trips, should think carefully about it given the statistical facts you are 15 times more likely to be shot dead in the USA than in Australia per capita per million people.""
Yes, and you are also about 15 times more likely to be struck with a small asteroid than a larger one. .... but should we really worry about either ?
This murder is a horrible incident and deserves severe punishment, but it is certainly not a reason to not visit America and enjoy many of America's wonderful people and places.
I really love Australia. They tell it like it is. Come here, settle down, but keep your b.s. to yourself. I don't blame them for being mad. Our country seemingly has lost its backbone all in the name of freedom of speech and expression. Wearing pants so your fanny shows should be banned. Thuggery type behavior should be curbed. Who would have ever thought we would have to be a country to tell certain kinds of young people to pull up their pants, and being a thug is not a wise career choice. But it looks like we have to help these youngsters set their compass in another direction. The world is learning about giving in to ridiculousness through the United States. Maybe its time to bring art, music and theatre back into the school system; where posers like these youngsters can act out safely, instead of taking a life on a lark. I'm not hating, I'm just tired of it. In my day, bands were like for getting high; not for bieng arrested with guns. "Hating Whites" is just hating the sorry situation their life is in. Nothing will help as long as we celebrate thuggery as being a desirable status.
"I just want to say that it would appeal to the deep thinkers in the USA to think again about the drift in the state of the nation."
________
The problem is Mr. Fischer and one that you may even be aware of is that our system is corrupt. It's controlled by special interest groups, and our representatives are in their pockets.
These ghetto kids are learning this through the music they all subscribe too, and because we live in a capitalist society we cannot do anything about it. These kids are growing up in single parent homes under no supervision because the parents in most cases are as ignorant as their children are.
I as an American am ashamed of what has happen, the deep thinkers you talk about help create the mess we are in. As an example these 3 hoodlums will be out of prison in 20 years or less. They may be sentence to life imprisonment but it is highly unlikely they will serve it.
So while this country touts gay rights, medical marijuana and abortion issues the average law abiding American citizen is not even safe in broad day light.
My condolence to this young man's family, and as an American I apologize to the nation of Australia.
Why make any noise at all. Nothing will ever change. If 20 dead babies in Newtown can't stop the madness nothing can. This country has finally reached the lowest of the low. Can't wait for Peter T King and Ted Cruz to tell us this is the greatest country in the world......
Sorry Australia for this. We are not all like this! Thoughts and prayers to the family. Hopefully we (USA) will deal with these criminals as they should be, as dogs as they are! It's sad that our country is known for being like this and wish I had a solution.
Laws virtually eliminated gun crimes in Australia? Talk about a bald-faced lie.
Fact – homicide rates in the US and Australia declined by very similar amounts over the last 20 years – 30-something percent in both countries. It was NOT gun laws that reduced homicides in Australia, whatever the nutjobs may say.
Foreigners: Please stay away!
May be that will send a message to the Congress. Otherwise, our Congress is just a bunch of puppets controlled by the thugs at the NRA.
Unfortunately, Mr. Young, the problem in America isn't with the "deep thinkers". It's with the shallow ones who buy into the warped patriotic rhetoric of the NRA and their ilk. Until those groups wake up and realize that they're efforts support gang-bangers and criminals – not god and country – we'll continue to have these shootings day in and day out. There's a great opinion piece in yesterday's NY Times, written by a convicted murderer, about why gun shows and lax laws made it easy for him to get guns, and why the conservative argument against regulation is just a bunch of hot air. But hey, let's all just keep living in La-La (LaPierre) Land and pretending something else is the problem.
self-correction (besides grammar errors), the article I'm referring to was in The Atlantic, not NY Times.
The proof is in the pudding. Canadians are healthier and live longer than americans.
you canadians have no worries, because the u.s. is right here!!! ask your french and british ancesters about the slaves they brought over here you hippocrits!! why do canadians come down to work and get health-care?
Here is the issue nobody wants to address, yet it must be if this problem is ever going to be solved:
Black people are violent. They just are. There's no getting around it if you want to be honest.
What cities are the most violent? Chicago, Detroit, DC. Majority black population.
Rap music (a big part of black culture) is nothing BUT violence. Mostly black on black violence.
They are just violent, plain and simple.
THIS is why southern and S. African whites segregated themselves from blacks.
Do ppl seriously still watch this show? What a waste!! Wish Larry was still around.
It's sad and tragic to see a young ambitious gentleman killed by random violence in US. In light of so much of "US boycott" calls, I would like to remind that Australia too experiences random killings of South Asian students on their own soil and often times those poor students are told by the local police to avoid passing by certain areas rather than investigating and finding those killers.
The anger at the three individuals who carried out the murder, is justified, but it's not right to call on Australians to avoid the entire country. Tim Fischer is in a position of authority and respect, but instead of using that position to provoke thoughtful and rational discussions, he is using it to sow misunderstandings between Americans and Australians, and spread prejudices about, and anger toward the general American population. His statement encouraging Australians to avoid the US, is bigoted.
What if we do this, take away all government help, to any one family that is in a gang that kills some one. They don’t seem to care about going to jail, it’s a joke to them. So what if there social security, there food stamps, there welfare, was cut off to there families. This would make understand that they are not just hurting the family of the person they killed, but there own family. This would make there family’s, make sure they were not in the gang. Put a little skin in the game, it would change the way they think now wouldn’t it.
Does anyone here think the US could become the next South Africa? I think it's somewhat likely. Any insights please?
Maybe everyone should look at the staight gun facts. One fact is more people per 100000 people die in England in stabbing and knife related deaths than people in the US die of guns. Should England now outlaw knives? People need to wake up, and you will find that guns are less of a problem than you are being told.
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The problem is not gun control, Yes I know we do have a gun problem in this country. It's the lack of respect people have towards others. The right to bear arms law was written back then (when people were smart and actually had respect for others). People had guns back then, and the country wasn't as bad, as it is now. Plus if you get rid of guns then people will just find something else to use. We are living in a society with too many rights. WE have too many rights as a nation. People can basically get away with anything. Especially kids. Kids cannot get punished (because it is viewed as abuse). Abuse and punishment are two different things people. So by not punishing your kids you are teaching them they can do whatever they want to do and they can't get in trouble. We will get so many rights protecting these suspects, and the lawyers will do whatever they can to prove these three were mentally insane and didn't know what they were doing. EXCUSE ME, they knew what they were doing, they did it because they probably knew that all these rights we have will protect them. They kill someone, but yet they will still be alive in prison. Then they will probably just blame their parents, "Oh we didn't get any love at home, so we did this for attention and because we were bored". Our laws are messed up in this country. We are the land of the free, but all these rights we have is messing up our country. We have to set limits, bring back the death penalty. Then most likely there will not be as many people killing others, because they know they will get killed themselves if they do.
This story really anger's me. This poor guy is just going for a jog and he is shot dead for no reason. Chris I'm so sorry for your loss and it
was so sense less. These 3 kids should be beaten death! no other form of justice makes sense.
It's not the guns, I bet you all three of these kids have no dad's. There's a father issue here or a lack of a father issue here. These mom's can't raise their kids correctly.
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